White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

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White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:46 pm

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The White House appeared to leave the door open Monday to delaying the so-called individual mandate in the federal health care law, as President Obama acknowledged the main website for enrollment is not working as it should.

Press Secretary Jay Carney addressed concerns over the mandate at a press briefing shortly after Obama, in the Rose Garden, personally acknowledged failures with the HealthCare.gov site and vowed that "these problems are getting fixed."

Carney was peppered with questions on whether the administration would be open to delaying the requirement on individuals to buy health insurance, if the website continues to lock out would-be customers. Echoing Obama, Carney said repeatedly that the country is just three weeks into a six-month enrollment process and suggested it's too early to make any decisions of that magnitude.

But he did not close the door on the option.

Asked if the administration is looking for flexibility in applying the mandate, Carney said: "Whatever conclusions you draw about the way the law is written, I think you can draw. The law is clear that if you do not have access to affordable health insurance, then you will not be asked to pay a penalty because you haven't purchased affordable health insurance."

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by UndercoverInTexas on Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:46 pm

National Review's version of the press conference:

"When ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Carney, 'If the website is not fixed, will people still need to pay the fine?' Carney refused to answer, saying that we were three weeks into a six-month long process and implying that we need not worry about this hypothetical. 'You can’t really charge people a fine for not getting health insurance if you don’t fix this mess,' Karl said. Carney did not say if he agreed."


So, when the Republicans requested a delay of the mandate, Obama flatly refused, but now it sounds like they may not make people pay a fine--which is the same thing. A mandate has no teeth without a fine.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:54 pm

UndercoverInTexas wrote:National Review's version of the press conference:

"When ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Carney, 'If the website is not fixed, will people still need to pay the fine?' Carney refused to answer, saying that we were three weeks into a six-month long process and implying that we need not worry about this hypothetical. 'You can’t really charge people a fine for not getting health insurance if you don’t fix this mess,' Karl said. Carney did not say if he agreed."


So, when the Republicans requested a delay of the mandate, Obama flatly refused, but now it sounds like they may not make people pay a fine--which is the same thing.  A mandate has no teeth without a fine.
So, I am wondering, are they going to put the delay of the individual mandate in the next piece of legislation?? LOL!


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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by KayKEELY on Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:45 pm

UndercoverInTexas wrote:National Review's version of the press conference:

"When ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Carney, 'If the website is not fixed, will people still need to pay the fine?' Carney refused to answer, saying that we were three weeks into a six-month long process and implying that we need not worry about this hypothetical. 'You can’t really charge people a fine for not getting health insurance if you don’t fix this mess,' Karl said. Carney did not say if he agreed."


So, when the Republicans requested a delay of the mandate, Obama flatly refused, but now it sounds like they may not make people pay a fine--which is the same thing.  A mandate has no teeth without a fine.
I actually just watched that clip... Jay Carney should never ever ever play poker...

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by lavonne301 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:03 am

I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:12 am

lavonne301 wrote:I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.
See, that's what I don't get. Why didn't they work with that bill that originally had the delay?

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by KayKEELY on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:15 am

lavonne301 wrote:I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.
Because - He has a special knack for doubling down on stupid... If Republicans were smart, they would just get out of his way. The single most effective politician against Barack Obama is Barack Obama.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:18 am

KayKEELY wrote:
lavonne301 wrote:I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.
Because - He has a special knack for doubling down on stupid... If Republicans were smart, they would just get out of his way. The single most effective politician against Barack Obama is Barack Obama.
You got to hand it to him, he always seems to get what he wants.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by lavonne301 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:49 am

KayKEELY wrote:
lavonne301 wrote:I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.
Because - He has a special knack for doubling down on stupid... If Republicans were smart, they would just get out of his way. The single most effective politician against Barack Obama is Barack Obama.
I think that their frustration is that he doubles down on stupid and yet somehow people seem to still think that he is a genius. It has to be frustrating watching all of the stuff that he gets away with and the way that the media still portrays him as some kind of knight in shining armor.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by UndercoverInTexas on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:05 am

lavonne301 wrote:
KayKEELY wrote:
lavonne301 wrote:I said a while ago that the graceful way for President Obama to get out of this disastrous launch would have been to give in on the one year delay on the individual mandates. I don't know why he dug his heels in on this and now he is looking really bad.
Because - He has a special knack for doubling down on stupid... If Republicans were smart, they would just get out of his way. The single most effective politician against Barack Obama is Barack Obama.
I think that their frustration is that he doubles down on stupid and yet somehow people seem to still think that he is a genius. It has to be frustrating watching all of the stuff that he gets away with and the way that the media still portrays him as some kind of knight in shining armor.
You can bet that if he has to nix the penalties for a period of time, he will spin it as something other than a delay of the mandate.
But without penalties, there is no mandate (I actually prefer the word, "coercion".)

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by TXHD5 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:25 am

Naddy wrote:
UndercoverInTexas wrote:National Review's version of the press conference:

"When ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Carney, 'If the website is not fixed, will people still need to pay the fine?' Carney refused to answer, saying that we were three weeks into a six-month long process and implying that we need not worry about this hypothetical. 'You can’t really charge people a fine for not getting health insurance if you don’t fix this mess,' Karl said. Carney did not say if he agreed."


So, when the Republicans requested a delay of the mandate, Obama flatly refused, but now it sounds like they may not make people pay a fine--which is the same thing.  A mandate has no teeth without a fine.
So, I am wondering, are they going to put the delay of the individual mandate in the next piece of legislation??  LOL!  

The "original" piece of legislation isn't being implemented as it was written and Obama has selectively chosen the parts he is going to implement. Why bother putting anything into new legislation when Obama is ruling by the wave of his septre.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:02 am

TXHD5 wrote:
Naddy wrote:
UndercoverInTexas wrote:National Review's version of the press conference:

"When ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Carney, 'If the website is not fixed, will people still need to pay the fine?' Carney refused to answer, saying that we were three weeks into a six-month long process and implying that we need not worry about this hypothetical. 'You can’t really charge people a fine for not getting health insurance if you don’t fix this mess,' Karl said. Carney did not say if he agreed."


So, when the Republicans requested a delay of the mandate, Obama flatly refused, but now it sounds like they may not make people pay a fine--which is the same thing.  A mandate has no teeth without a fine.
So, I am wondering, are they going to put the delay of the individual mandate in the next piece of legislation??  LOL!  

The "original" piece of legislation isn't being implemented as it was written and Obama has selectively chosen the parts he is going to implement.  Why bother putting anything into new legislation when Obama is ruling by the wave of his septre.
He is, I agree.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by KayKEELY on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:22 am

Wanted to add... This is from New York Observer...
A Liberal’s Frustration With Obamacare
By Robin Hemley 10/22 10:00am

As a frequent world traveler, I’ve had occasion to seek medical treatment in Croatia, Australia, the Philippines, Singapore, and France. I was always treated right away, treated well, and handed surprisingly low bills. Why can’t we get it right? These experiences as well as my “liberal” leanings, make me an unabashed supporter of the Affordable Healthcare Act.

So it pains me to report my frustration in trying to sign up for health coverage under the new provisions.

I’ve tried five times, by logging into the website and by talking to representatives. Each time I sign up, I’m stymied by a new absurdity. At one point, I was told that everyone but my wife was eligible for coverage, though she’s an American citizen. Another time, I was told that my immigration papers couldn’t be verified. Immigration? I was born in New York. Do New Yorkers need green cards now? Another time, my six-year-old somehow became the primary applicant. At least she earns nothing, so maybe that will lower my costs.

“Something’s not right,” the representative told me when the computer listed my daughter, Naomi, as the responsible applicant, before giving up and telling me to try again later. On top of that, I’ve had to enter my information anew each time I’ve applied (though supposedly my information is saved from session to session), in each case wasting an hour or more of my time. And the representatives I’ve spoken with seem to have been trained by Elmer Fudd or Mr. Magoo. They can’t even read their prepared scripts, don’t know the difference between optional information and required information, and seem hopelessly baffled by the system.

When I posted an observation to this effect on my Facebook page, my like-minded friends shared similar stories of dysfunction:

“Yikes!” replied one friend, before continuing, “I haven’t even gotten to this level of dysfunction yet. I can’t get on line – I did talk to a rep. (lots of reading time while she stared at the computer screen for me) – and she was nice, but I think stymied by the changes made from one day to another. So far, I have an account and an application, and a message from Healthcare.gov that I cannot retrieve. I’ve tried changing my password but it won’t let me. … I don’t see how they can possibly fine people who have not signed up with a system like this. I’m trying – but I don’t have one hundred solid hours to give over to this. And this is true of everyone trying to sign up. I’m pretty angry too.”

Another friend: “I got through the whole thing but the screen with my ‘eligibility results’ came up blank which gave me an uncomfortable feeling. The rep I spoke to assured me that my information was in the system even though she couldn’t see it because their system was down. She asked if I wanted to give her the information again (even though “it’s in the system”) and when I asked what would be the point of that, she said: I don’t know.”

Another: “Missouri claims I do not exist.”

And still another: “I’m apparently not a US citizen and my toddler makes a rumored $5000 a month, but otherwise…”

If I believed in conspiracy theories, I’d think that Ted Cruz was employing hundreds of Republican moles to destroy the system from within. But thus far, none of the live (technically speaking) representatives I’ve connected with have started reading Green Eggs and Ham to me as part of their script, so I’m convinced they’re sincere in their befuddlement.

In reporting my frustrations, I’m loath to become the poster child for those intractable foes of “Obamacare” who might point to me and say, “Look, even the lily-livered liberals hate it!” As one of my similarly frustrated friends commented, “the goal is huge,” and it’s one in which I still believe. Another, less sanguine, says she’s healthy now, but might need meds by the time she finally logs on.

For now, I plan to wait a month before trying anew, and hope the website’s kinks are worked out by then.

In the meantime, perhaps the administration should just farm out the website to people who can assuredly deliver, such as ChristianMingle.org or EHarmony.com. Anything to prevent Ted Cruz from having the last laugh.

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:32 am

I just posted this on TX's thread, about the legal case for this mandate vs. the employer mandate:

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Re: White House Isn't Ruling Out Delaying Individual Mandate For OCare

Post by Naddy on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:34 am

KayKEELY wrote:Wanted to add... This is from New York Observer...
A Liberal’s Frustration With Obamacare
By Robin Hemley 10/22 10:00am

As a frequent world traveler, I’ve had occasion to seek medical treatment in Croatia, Australia, the Philippines, Singapore, and France. I was always treated right away, treated well, and handed surprisingly low bills. Why can’t we get it right? These experiences as well as my “liberal” leanings, make me an unabashed supporter of the Affordable Healthcare Act.

So it pains me to report my frustration in trying to sign up for health coverage under the new provisions.

I’ve tried five times, by logging into the website and by talking to representatives. Each time I sign up, I’m stymied by a new absurdity. At one point, I was told that everyone but my wife was eligible for coverage, though she’s an American citizen. Another time, I was told that my immigration papers couldn’t be verified. Immigration? I was born in New York. Do New Yorkers need green cards now? Another time, my six-year-old somehow became the primary applicant. At least she earns nothing, so maybe that will lower my costs.

“Something’s not right,” the representative told me when the computer listed my daughter, Naomi, as the responsible applicant, before giving up and telling me to try again later. On top of that, I’ve had to enter my information anew each time I’ve applied (though supposedly my information is saved from session to session), in each case wasting an hour or more of my time. And the representatives I’ve spoken with seem to have been trained by Elmer Fudd or Mr. Magoo. They can’t even read their prepared scripts, don’t know the difference between optional information and required information, and seem hopelessly baffled by the system.

When I posted an observation to this effect on my Facebook page, my like-minded friends shared similar stories of dysfunction:

“Yikes!” replied one friend, before continuing, “I haven’t even gotten to this level of dysfunction yet. I can’t get on line – I did talk to a rep. (lots of reading time while she stared at the computer screen for me) – and she was nice, but I think stymied by the changes made from one day to another. So far, I have an account and an application, and a message from Healthcare.gov that I cannot retrieve. I’ve tried changing my password but it won’t let me. … I don’t see how they can possibly fine people who have not signed up with a system like this. I’m trying – but I don’t have one hundred solid hours to give over to this. And this is true of everyone trying to sign up. I’m pretty angry too.”

Another friend: “I got through the whole thing but the screen with my ‘eligibility results’ came up blank which gave me an uncomfortable feeling. The rep I spoke to assured me that my information was in the system even though she couldn’t see it because their system was down. She asked if I wanted to give her the information again (even though “it’s in the system”) and when I asked what would be the point of that, she said: I don’t know.”

Another: “Missouri claims I do not exist.”

And still another: “I’m apparently not a US citizen and my toddler makes a rumored $5000 a month, but otherwise…”

If I believed in conspiracy theories, I’d think that Ted Cruz was employing hundreds of Republican moles to destroy the system from within. But thus far, none of the live (technically speaking) representatives I’ve connected with have started reading Green Eggs and Ham to me as part of their script, so I’m convinced they’re sincere in their befuddlement.

In reporting my frustrations, I’m loath to become the poster child for those intractable foes of “Obamacare” who might point to me and say, “Look, even the lily-livered liberals hate it!” As one of my similarly frustrated friends commented, “the goal is huge,” and it’s one in which I still believe. Another, less sanguine, says she’s healthy now, but might need meds by the time she finally logs on.

For now, I plan to wait a month before trying anew, and hope the website’s kinks are worked out by then.

In the meantime, perhaps the administration should just farm out the website to people who can assuredly deliver, such as ChristianMingle.org or EHarmony.com. Anything to prevent Ted Cruz from having the last laugh.
Oh my!

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